Woocommerce is everywhere. Absolutely everywhere. Over four million stores.
About a third of all non-big-box/amazon online shopping runs through Woocommerce installations. Much more than Shopify, which is the next biggest.
Because it’s a plugin for WP you might not ever notice a store is Woocommerce until you get the store emails that people often don’t customise much and have an identifiable look to them.
It’s fully possible to run a simple Woocommerce store without giving anyone a cut beyond your payment provider’s normal fees.
It’s not too difficult to extend; custom payment gateways and order processing hooks, inbound APIs, GraphQL etc.
If you are judicious about your install — just run Woocommerce, WP, customise one of the core themes or a well-known good theme like WP-Start or an Anders Noren theme, use the Stripe or Paypal payment gateway —- it’s pretty solidly secure, too; you’ll get automatic updates.
It’s definitely not the most fun thing to configure and administer, but it’s not Magento at least. I have never enjoyed that.
Automattic’s acquisition of Woocommerce was absolutely a blessing at the time. Some of the more complex extensions to Woocommerce are paid addons, which is where they make their money (as well as payment gateway referral fees, which was a little-noticed part of the squabble with WP Engine, who modified Woocommerce to change the referrer to point to them). Woothemes (the previous owner) were unpredictable and a little rapacious; they changed their pricing in ways that caused concern (and Woocommerce itself started as an acrimonious and hostile fork of a plugin called Jigoshop).
I would really like to stop using WP over time, and it feels more urgent each time an Automattic story hits the headlines.
But I don’t think there are many better small e-commerce offerings than Woocommerce that offer that level of open-source control or cost control for people who need to run a modestly large store on a true shoestring.
You’re from the Matt “WordPress is 45% of websites” school of statistics. WooCommerce is nothing compared to Shopify, barely a blip, inconsequential. WooCommerce is “installed” on millions of websites but it processes perhaps 1% of the volume of Shopify.
WooCommerce isn’t bad, acquiring it was a good call for Automattic, but to put it in the same league as Shopify is pure fantasy.
As for cost control, I’m not sure why you think Shopify is more expensive. Moving from WooCommerce to Shopify is expensive because migrations are expensive but day to day running costs are pretty much equivalent.
And keep in mind most major Shopify users are building out their own front ends so these BuiltWith numbers are underreporting on big Shopify customers, whereas WooCommerce is almost never used without a WordPress front end. These are the most favorable numbers to WooCommerce and they are still bad.
edit: it’s even worse than I thought. Woo’s own stats cite storeleads.app which lists the biggest Woo stores as… some blogs? Shopify has most of the top stores from brands we all recognize. Woo has zero. Woo’s involvement in actual commerce is pitiful, I think 1% of Shopify is optimistic.
edit edit: one of Woo’s most popular stores is billyparisi.com. A recipe website that sells a couple of t-shirts. A WordPress blog that drives all of the traffic and a WooCommerce tacked on for the sake of it. And that’s one of Woo’s best.
I did write a mangled sentence late at night and you are correct to object to it.
But you seem kind of angry and have decided something about me, and are now cherrypicking things off the woocommerce site to try to make me look foolish (as if that site’s gallery is necessarily authoritative?)
Did I explicitly say “shopify is more expensive”, for one thing? You are putting those words in my mouth.
However. I just looked at the numbers. Shopify starts at £19 per month. I could set up a speculative woocommerce store on good hosting for about £40 per year.
Several of the people I have set up stores for over the years have had no certainty that they would make a sale for months and yet needed customisations in their setup that no hosted e-commerce company could offer in their cheap plans.
I have written dynamic product functionality, installed weird extensions, even used Wordpress as the prototype storefront in a multi-vendor, multi-supplier fulfilment network demo.
Woocommerce exists. It functions. It can be rolled out for tiny, tiny money on hosting you control and can customise. It is OK. Not that fun to administer but it’s a complete open source store with a huge ecosystem. It’s exceptionally widely deployed. For people who want to run shoestring customised store experiments or sell on tiny margins or for charities, it’s clearly an option.
> Like isn't WooCommerce an absolute also-ran compared to Amazon, Shopify, Wix, Squarespace, etc?
You said that WooCommerce is more widely deployed than Shopify. Yes, it is installed as a WordPress plugin on more websites than Shopify but that is completely meaningless when discussing whether WooCommerce is an "also-ran" compared to Shopify.
So, if your comment was intended only to explain that WooCommerce is a widely installed Shopify plugin, I apologize for suggesting you have something in common with Matt, but your comment read to me (and I guess everyone else) like you were saying WooCommerce isn't an also-ran and is an important product for online commerce. It isn't, in the context of business, it doesn't belong in the same conversation as Shopify or any other serious commerce business.
(e.g. just this afternoon: Godin guitars. One of the longer-established multi-brand companies in the guitar world.)
And embedded in really odd stuff, like behind member walls — companies selling spare parts for washing machines and hoovers, all of that stuff. It's absolutely the long tail of ecommerce.
I will grant you that in the last year or two some pretty big stores (particularly in the media and music world) have migrated to Shopify (they have a tool for that).
I don't blame them for migrating away and it's not hard to see purely strategic reasons why they would that are tied into all of this nonsense with Matt's very obvious implosion. Like I said in my comment, I'd prefer not to be running WP at all.
But a lot of the work I do is at the very small, very speculative or very custom end of things. I'm looking for various ways out that still let me help individual people.
> About a third of all non-big-box/amazon online shopping runs through Woocommerce installations. Much more than Shopify, which is the next biggest.
Source? This source [0] puts Shopify 10x ahead of WooCommerce on GMV. They're close on number of installations. That roughly matches my experience working in this space in 2022, though it's definitely possible our customers weren't representative of the market as a whole.
The link that you provided largely confirms what parent said: it puts WooCommerce ahead of Shopify in terms of store count, with a number (4.34M live stores) which is consistent to the one mentioned by parent ("over four million stores").
> They're close on number of installations.
2.84M vs 4.34M is quite a wide margin, wouldn't you agree?
It's true that the link puts Shopify at roughly 10X in terms of GMV but parent did not claim otherwise.
I think any interpretation of this that would measure "a third of... shopping" by number of individual sites rather than dollar volume is disingenuous at best.
> About a third of all non-big-box/amazon online shopping runs through Woocommerce installations
And as for this:
> 2.84M vs 4.34M is quite a wide margin, wouldn't you agree?
No, I wouldn't. I think that's within the margin of error for the typical methodology of this kind of research. They're the same number.
This might have been the tipping point for disruptive startups.
But the “your job is toast, that sucks, learn AI I guess” people are a little quieter now, because it’s becoming evident that it might be their colleagues first.
Yeah, this lines up with my experience. It will overkill things and then dig a hole for itself and fall in.
But did you test Muse Glimmer? IMO it is really worth comparing the two, at least. I really find it interesting (and while it is slower at outputting tokens, it solves problems better and usually even faster than the 3.6 35B MoE).
So far it happens to be the only one I've put code into production from (though I have done loads of useful self-teaching research with the Qwen models and I am grateful for them)
I did, Muse came close but what impressed me about Qwen is it’ll push back if it thinks it’s right even when it isn’t, I can work with that, Muse tended to flip between states too easily/too much.
It is a good model but Qwen (at least for the things I use it for) edges just ahead, it seems much better at the “rip this apart, suggest improvements, touch nothing” use case where I can use it as a second set of eyes, I don’t agree with all its suggestions but it catches enough to be worth running while I grab coffee, it also seems to follow instructions better in terms of outputting more what I asked for than what it thinks I asked for.
Qwen is the only local model that said in its thinking “I think the user is pushing me to see if I’ll suggest something even though I have nothing to suggest, I should just say that” and then did, caught me off guard, they didn’t do that so readily 6mths ago.
The ISTA version is also comfortably able to fit on a 7900XTX with a good amount of space left for context and is decently fast given the AMD cards are not as fast as nvidia cards of same era/rough price, didn’t buy it for AI but it’s surprisingly capable mostly because 24GB at 960GB/s is still a lot of bandwidth compared to everything but nvidia cards.
Yes — I have seen that more self-assured behaviour.
I have a test where I ask the model to ask me any followup questions it needs, and Qwen 3.8 27B is the only one I have seen that won’t routinely take this as a prompt to just ask questions regardless. Muse Glimmer sometimes decides it has what it needs and has no need to ask; Qwen will generally just conclude it doesn’t need any more information. And sometimes it will ask questions with sensible defaults that I can accept collectively with a single answer.
However, when given the prompt to search if they need to, both of them will search when they don’t need to.
> You're basically arguing that a criminal syndicate must be allowed to continue and we're required to make their business model make sense?
This is how Uber worked. They didn't just break the law in different countries, in several they actively misled government/law enforcement investigations. Google "Greyball".
Oh I'm aware that they're ~all assholes and many have gotten away with worse. It just seems like a poor argument that we're required to make it happen for them.
FWIW if I understand correctly what people say about Trump’s psychology, which if he is a malignant narcissist is a pretty complex maelstrom of instincts, he is actually at a disadvantage in imagining ever dying.
He will not be able to cope with the idea, or be able to rationally plan for it. Unlike other eighty year olds he is not thinking of a future without him in it; rather nobody else has any future without him.
So he is not acting nihilistically but desperately and grandiosely, as a way to deflect from the whole concept. I think there are many examples of this in recent months, but they are moderated by his inability to stay awake.
Especially as you can draw the reasonable conclusion that he wouldn't know ethics if they bit him without looking at his OpenAI track record at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_(blockchain)
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